Monday, January 28, 2013

Attention, Everyone!

This is Somewhat Abnormal, the personal blog of Robert Oerter. It is where I write about things I am reading and thinking about and comment on them. It is not to be confused with the similarly named Journal of Somewhat Abnormal Philosophy, or the esteemed Proceedings of the Somewhat Abnormal Society. Sometimes I write about science, something I know a little bit about. I occasionally attempt some amateur philosophical commentary. Other times I remark on things I find interesting or amusing. Read at your own risk.

Ed Feser has written a long post in response to my very brief one about his recent paper on Aquinas and inertial motion. I really don't think my little remark is worth all this boring argument, but as Feser accused me of dishonesty in the comments of my post, I feel compelled to respond. I am often wrong, I sometimes say stupid things, and I sometimes don't make my point as clearly as I might have. But I am not dishonest.

Wherein lies the supposed dishonesty? Feser begins by complaining that I ignored the whole first half of his paper. Well, I did! That wasn't the funny part! Again: this is a blog, not a philosophical journal. I comment on what I want to comment on, in whole or in part. I am not obliged to analyze his whole paper in order to make my silly little point. If Ed think otherwise then I think he misunderstands the nature of a blog.

He goes on to say

In the second half of the paper I examine, without endorsing, several ways of construing the relationship between the two principles...

and lists three of these ways. Well, my post concentrated on just one of the three possibilities, but explicitly mentioned that he treated of other possibilities. So I can't be accused of misrepresentation on that point.

What about the case I made fun of? Did I misrepresent what he wrote in any way? No, Feser says, both in his comments on my post and in his own blog post, that I interpreted him correctly in that

...I do discuss (though I do not endorse) the idea that angelic substances are the cause of inertial motion.
 He complains that

Needless to say, the idea has nothing whatsoever to do with wings, golden hair, white robes and the other stuff of children’s books.
Well, guess what? I didn't write a word about wings, golden hair, blah blah. Such dishonesty, Prof. Feser! (OK, I did make a parenthetical jab about dancing and pins, but that could hardly be resisted under the circumstances.)

Now, as far as endorsment: Feser says he didn't endorse any of the three possibilities. So if I had chosen any of the other possibilities, or even if I had criticised all three, he could still have responded "Well, I didn't endorse any of those solutions, I merely mentioned them." But for the case in question, here is what he wrote (emphasis added):

Hence the only possible cause of inertial motion—again, at least if it is considered to involve real change—would seem to be a necessarily existing intelligent substance or substances, of the sort the earlier Aristotelian tradition thought moved celestial objects. (Unless it is simply God Himself causing it directly as Unmoved Mover.)

So, imagine I wrote a physics paper, in which I wrote

There are three possibilities for the Higgs: Supersymmetric models, grand unified models, and the Standard Model.... In the case of the Standard Model, the only possible cause of the Higgs couplings would seem to be that they are the result of the action of intelligent fairies.
 Now, if someone wrote a blog post saying, "Seriously, Robb? Intelligent fairies?" how should I respond? "What dishonesty! I didn't endorse that possibility, I only mentioned it. And you completely ignored my treatment of the supersymmetric and grand unified cases!"

Again: Feser suggested angels as a serious possibility - indeed, the only possibility - for the cause of inertial motion for the case under consideration. I think that's worthy of a comment. And a chuckle.

Alright, I almost regret having written the post, since, as I said, this is all a rather boring argument. But what made it all worthwhile was the 344 (!) comments on Feser's blog in which Feserite dittoheads demonstrate their philosophical acumen by writing, "Yeah, that Oerter's a complete idiot/jerk/brainless GNU." Ah, it warms the cockles of my heart.

Feser finally complains that I am "tossing some red meat to the New Atheist mob", who will now endlessly repeat "Feser claims that asteroids are moved around by angels!" Well judging by the comments here, my readership consists mainly of Feserite Thomists, so I can hardly be accused of playing to the audience. And I can only dream of having that kind of clout in the atheist blogosphere - I've never had 344 comments on any post, ever. I'm fairly sure my silly little jibe would have sunk without a trace had not Ed brought attention to it. So if what he fears comes to pass, he will only have himself to blame - in more ways than one.

17 comments:

  1. I certainly agree you were not dishonest in your quotations or comments about Feser's paper. Feser said what he said and you commented on it in blog fashion. BTW, I doubt there are enough intelligent fairies around to guide all the Higgs couplings happening in the universe. Peace.

    ReplyDelete
  2. In blog land more than 30 hours is an eternity.
    Is there any truth in that statement?
    It's all in the music, so enjoy:

    "And in the naked light I saw
    Ten thousand people, maybe more
    People talking without speaking
    People hearing without listening
    People writing songs that voices never share
    And no one dared
    Disturb the sound of silence"
    - Paul Simon, 1965

    Changing gears, Charles Ashbacher said this:
    "Georg Cantor, the first to prove that there are different levels of infinity, faced extreme criticism and ultimately went mad. Fortunately, Rudy Rucker provides a gentle introduction to this concept, one that can be read by most with the only consequence being enlightenment."
    - quoting Charles Ashbacher, on Amazon.com, being reprinted with permission from the Journal of Recreational Mathematics, reviewing Rudy Rucker's book Infinity and the Mind.

    - See also Scott Ryan's review (also on Amazon). Scott (of these postings I wager) said this (with respect to Rucker's examination of Goedel): "Goedel was a mathematical Platonist - - that is, he believed that mathematical objects are real in their own right and that the mind has the power to grasp them directly in some way. Rucker gets this right ...."

    So let's play some more of the record:
    " 'Fools,' said I, 'You do not know
    Silence like a cancer grows.
    Hear my words that I might teach you,
    Take my arms that I might reach you.'
    But my words like silent raindrops fell,
    And echoed
    In the wells of silence."

    So speak out, whether in an academic journal or in a lowly blog. We all want to hear you now. Whether ye be for or against Angels is a good subject. Whether there is truth in religion is even a better subject. Peace.

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  3. >Ed Feser has written a long post in response to my very brief one about his recent paper on Aquinas and inertial motion.

    You are dishonest & I am very disappointed in you.

    First anyone who compares the two posts can see they are relatively the same length.

    Second.

    >So, imagine I wrote a physics paper, in which I wrote:

    If it is a physics paper then it's not appropriate for you to make metaphysical speculations. But it is appropriate for Feser to do so when writing a paper on philosophy and metaphysics especially to mention historical metaphysical explanations given given in the past(citing Aristotle) for the specific phenomena.

    Even Atheist Philosophers like William Rowe who formulated the Evidentialist Argument from Evil against the existence of God has said many of the Cosmological Arguments by themselves are formidable arguments for the existence of some type of God.

    >Feser begins by complaining that I ignored the whole first half of his paper. Well, I did!

    So why are you the victim here? You all but admit to not reading the paper, misrepresenting it's contents and making fun of it based on a few quotes taken out of context.

    Why don't you just man up and apologize?

    Yair who unlike you has read the whole Paper & came away from the discussion with the following conclusions.

    QUOTE"Feser has succeeded to show that the NPOI does not necessarily contradict APOM and hence that the chaining rule of the First Way is not falsified by the NPOI. As this seems to have been the concern of the paper, it's a success. I'll even add that our discussion has shown that the Thomist has several options, some of which may not even considerably undermine the plausibility of APOM given NPOI (which is a stronger claim than Feser's)."END QUOTE

    If anyone else is due and apology it would be me toward Yair for underestimating his philosophical acumen & bagging on him. Which I offered then & I repeat now here.

    You see it's not hard unless you are blinded by pride.

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  4. Your protestations of honesty are hard to take seriously when you write.

    >Well, guess what? I didn't write a word about wings, golden hair, blah blah. Such dishonesty, Prof. Feser! (OK, I did make a parenthetical jab about dancing and pins, but that could hardly be resisted under the circumstances.)

    then write:

    >In the case of the Standard Model, the only possible cause of the Higgs couplings would seem to be that they are the result of the action of intelligent fairies.

    >now, if someone wrote a blog post saying, "Seriously, Robb? Intelligent fairies?"

    So in the end you do equate angels with Fairies and the concept of an intelligent substansive form escapes you either?

    How is Feser then not right about you here?

    Here is a nickel Prof Oerter buy a clue.

    ReplyDelete
  5. As the good book says:

    "Willy and the poor boys are playin'
    Bring a nickel, tap your feet."
    - CCR, John Fogerty, 1969

    Now Ben, remind the prof that over on Feser's blog you reminded the folks the prof was a good guy:

    BenYachovJanuary 8, 2013 at 8:40 AM
    >When we first encounter Prof Oerter over at dangerous minds he was Ernest and seemed open minded and unlike many nut job Gnus he actually read TLS.

    He is having a brain fart now. He needs to own his mistake. If not for himself the honor of rational Atheists everywhere.

    I still believe deep down he is a good person in spite of this lapse but he needs to man up now.
    >

    Of course, then there is this type of comment:

    AnonymousJanuary 8, 2013 at 9:48 AM
    >I've actually had some exchanges with oerter on his blog during the previous discussions he had with Feser and to say that I was appalled by his anti-intellectualism would be an understatement.

    These types being as ignorant and as ridiculous as the entire new atheist mod is deserve nothing but dismissal if not downright ridicule.

    Obviously he's upset that he got schooled by Feser and is now acting out.
    >

    Now the great thing about this country is everybody's entitled to his own opinion and to express it. Am I right? So, IMO, the prof has never been schooled by Feser, and any reading of The Theory of Almost Everything shows that the prof is anything but anti-intellectual. But that's my opinion. Anonymous has a different opinion.

    So how does that help us get to the A-T argument for Angels?
    ... which I just happened to notice, no one in those 338 comments has bothered to advance or explain.

    Is that because angels are a ridiculous idea, or is that because it's just not worth taking the time to address the prof's actual criticism, or is that because there is something else going on here in blog land?

    "You don't need a penny just to hang around
    But if you've got a nickel, won't you lay your money down?
    Over on the corner there's a happy noise
    People come from all around to watch the magic boys"

    BTW, I have just re-read Mortimer Adler's Truth in Religion and I'm looking for my copy of his The Angels and Us, cuz I actually want to get schooled. So, Ben, do you have any links for good (rational or existential) arguments about angels?

    .... while we wait for prof Feser to apologize to prof O for calling him dishonest.

    Peace

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  6. >.... while we wait for prof Feser to apologize to prof O for calling him dishonest.

    You can't be serious! Prof Oerter all but admits to not reading the paper & ridiculing it & thus misrepresenting it & he is the victim here?

    You are full of shit!

    >Now Ben, remind the prof that over on Feser's blog you reminded the folks the prof was a good guy:

    Which I also said becomes harder to do when Prof Oerter digs in & refuses to own his mistake.

    >Now the great thing about this country is everybody's entitled to his own opinion and to express it. Am I right? So, IMO, the prof has never been schooled by Feser, and any reading of The Theory of Almost Everything shows that the prof is anything but anti-intellectual.

    Nobody myself, Feser or anybody over at Feser's blog ever claimed Prof Oerter was incompetent in physics.

    I don't see Feser posting half-cocked mockery of standard theories of physics.

    >So how does that help us get to the A-T argument for Angels?
    ... which I just happened to notice, no one in those 338 comments has bothered to advance or explain.

    We don't have an A-T argument for angels. That wasn't the point behind Feser's Paper. Yair got it after he read it & dismissed it on the grounds it contradicted his own Parmedian beliefs.

    >Is that because angels are a ridiculous idea, or is that because it's just not worth taking the time to address the prof's actual criticism, or is that because there is something else going on here in blog land?

    I'm in LA..LA..Land here. Oerter just admitted to not taking this seriously & you want a serious discussion on the topic?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Well, I'm not Oerter, and the non-strident part of Oerter's post challenged, IMO, Feser's application of angels to physical processes.

    Mortimer Adler in his Truth in Religion [p.35, Collier paperback ed. 1991] says:

    "Most of the great religions of the world .... affirm the existence of a spiritual being or, at least, a spiritual aspect or dimension of reality. It may be thought that such religious beliefs (as, for example, the belief in angels and in God as purely spiritual beings) come directly into conflict with the knowledge we have of the material cosmos through the physical sciences. But that is not the case.

    "The conflict is not with our scientific knowledge of the physical world but with the dogmatic materialism of a great many scientists and with the materialistic monism that has been more frequently asserted in modern philosophy. That assertion should be dismissed as sheer dogmatism. Angels, for example, may not exist, but their existence is not impossible."

    No one will deny that Adler is a well-respected proponent of A-T. Feser refers to Adler's Aristotle for Everybody in his own LST [p.25, referring to, but not actually endorsing, Adler's work]. Curiously it is on that same page (in LST) that Feser defends the modern practice of strident polemics when confronting arguments by New Atheists. He says:

    "I believe this tone is appropriate, indeed necessary, for the New Atheism derives whatever influence it has far more from its rhetorical force and 'sex appeal' (as I have called it) than from its very thin intellectual content. It is essential, then, not only that its intellectual pretensions are exposed but that its rhetoric is met with equal and opposite force."

    Is that what happened here? If so, It is Feser who used the word "dishonest" in responding to Oerter's strident rhetoric. But such a word as "dishonest" (IMO) exceeds the "equal and opposite force" required to meet Oerter's strident rhetoric as set by Feser's own standard. So Feser should apologize whether or not Oerter should apologize. Again, IMO.

    Besides, none of this gets to the question of exposing any "intellectual pretensions" presented by either side in this theist - atheist debate. And shouldn't that be the real issue?

    I think A-T does have an argument about Angels. Perhaps I do need to look elsewhere to find that argument. But I certainly don't fault Oerter, a physicist (and, by his own account, not a professional philosopher), for stridently raising the issue of Angels when Angels are brought up, by Feser (who IS a professional philosopher), in relation to Newtonian physics.

    So do angels belong in physics or not?

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  8. @c emersion

    You are full of shit here! These lame arse responses are something I expect from the talking points of some equally lame arse politician.

    They are not the words of an honest man interested in honest dialog.

    They are base sophistry!

    Nothing more!

    BRUTE FACT #1

    Oerter by his own admission did not read Feser's paper & quote mined one particular aspect of it & misrepresented it's content!

    BRUTE FACT #2

    This by definition is not an honest tactic or method of analysis by any normal definition of the word.

    BRUTE FACT #3

    Anybody who reads Oerter's smear job immediately gets the wrong impression of the content & nature of Feser's paper a paper Oerter didn't bother to read before shooting his mouth off about!

    >Feser defends the modern practice of strident polemics when confronting arguments by New Atheists. He says:

    Feser never defends dishonesty or sophistry!
    (Unlike some of us eh emerson?)

    Oerter post was objectively dishonest. He misrepresented Feser by his irresponsible analysis of the Paper. He should have known better!

    No "and's" "ifs" or "butts".

    >Is that what happened here? If so, It is Feser who used the word "dishonest" in responding to Oerter's strident rhetoric.

    Oerter was not being strident he was being dishonest! He made several misleading comments as too the nature of Feser's work a work he did not bother to read before commenting on.

    He should have known better!

    Oerter writes:
    >So, imagine I wrote a physics paper, in which I wrote

    >There are three possibilities for the Higgs: Supersymmetric models, grand unified models, and the Standard Model.... In the case of the Standard Model, the only possible cause of the Higgs couplings would seem to be that they are the result of the action of intelligent fairies.

    >Now, if someone wrote a blog post saying, "Seriously, Robb? Intelligent fairies?" how should I respond? "What dishonesty! I didn't endorse that possibility, I only mentioned it. And you completely ignored my treatment of the supersymmetric and grand unified cases!"


    HELLO!!!!!RICHARD DAWKINS wrote about the very remote but real possibility of Statues of the Blessed Virgin Mary waving their hands!

    QUOTE"In this way it is possible for a marble statue to wave at us' (Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker, p.159)END QUOTE

    If I gave myself the same power to ridicule and dishonestly misrepresent Dawkins as Oerter gives himself toward Feser I could take the above accurate out of context quote and say "Oh Richard Dawkins condemns religious people for believing in weird things but he believes Statues can wave! Oh he is hypocrite! Yet he also wants us to believe humans came from monkeys! Blah! Blah! Blah! ...etc"

    Sorry but that would be a misrepresentation of what Dawkins is saying here. I have no problem being strident toward any of Dawkins legitimate views or his legitimate ignorant views of philosophy and or religion.

    But dishonestly is not being strident. Even a Gnu like Dawkins does not deserve that. Nobody does!

    Giving your lame arse misleading analysis of a paper you didn't bother to read is dishonest!!!!

    Accept it!

    >So Feser should apologize whether or not Oerter should apologize.

    No this is all on Oerter!

    ReplyDelete
  9. Perhaps I used too much political-speak. Not sure. Let's look again.

    >Oerter was not being strident he was being dishonest!

    A fresh look -- Oerter's OP first sentence says: "Ed Feser has a new paper out explaining why Newton's First Law of Motion is not incompatible with Aquinas's principle that 'whatever is in motion is moved by another.' "

    Feser titled his paper: "The medieval principle of motion and the modern principle of inertia."

    How do I know this? .. By clicking on the link Oerter provided in his FIRST 6 words.

    Oerter's second paragraph immediately states that the two principles "seem to be directly contradictory, at least at first glance."

    Feser's first Section Heading is titled: "I. The purported contradiction." Feser's second paragraph, lead sentence, says, "It is widely thought that the principle of motion is in conflict with the principle of inertia, and that modern physics has therefore put paid to medieval theology, or at least to its notion of God as the Unmoved Mover of the world." His third paragraph lead sentence says, "Common though this view is, it is not only mistaken, but unfounded."

    Nothing out of sync here. Absolutely no dishonesty so far.

    Feser's second Section Heading, about 7 lines later, is titled: "II. Why the conflict is illusory." A quick glance reveals five italicized numbered subheadings, such as No formal contradiction, Equivocation, The 'state' of motion, Natural motion, and Natural science versus philosophy of nature," each with its own explanatory text.

    On the Feser side of this argument, I do not see any Headings in Feser's paper jumping out at me about Angels, or Angels being "necessary to keep a moving object moving," which is the subject matter described by Oerter in Oerter's third paragraph.

    So what dishonest thing does Oerter actually by focusing on Angels so soon in his piece? Well, he quotes from Feser's own analysis, that leads Feser, not Oerter, to conclude: "Hence the only possible cause of inertial motion, at least if it is considered to involve real change -- would seem to be a necessarily existing intelligent substance or substances, of the sort the earlier Aristotelian tradition thought moved celestial objects. (Unless it is simply God Himself causing it directly as Unmoved Mover.)" Feser had just previously stated, "Now the causes of celestial motion in this earlier Aristotelian tradition were, of course, intelligent or angelic substances ...."

    ----- break point -----

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    Replies
    1. @c emerson

      QUOTE"Wherein lies the supposed dishonesty? Feser begins by complaining that I ignored the whole first half of his paper. Well, I did!"

      You can't spin this & I will not get sucked into your misdirection.

      The man made a analysis of a paper he admits to having read and is doing damage control rather then man up and admit he was in the wrong.

      QUOTE"So how does Feser resolve the conflict? Easy! The object in uniform motion is moved along by....

      (wait for it)

      ANGELS!

      Yes, angels are necessary to keep a moving object moving. I'm not making this up, he really says it:"END QUOTE

      QUOTE"Once again we see the Sophisticated Theologian in action. When the world doesn't work the way you want it to, just invent some invisible, undetectable beings to fill the gap.

      I have to thank Prof. Feser for this paper; it shows more clearly than anything I could write what absurdities result when you try to force the world into a pre-conceived metaphysics.END QUOTE

      This is how Prof Oerter dishonestly sums up Prof Feser's paper for his readers.

      Oerter was telling his readers in clear English Feser's paper was an Angels-of-the-gaps argument on celestial motion.

      CASE CLOSED!

      His lame arse defense at this point?

      It's Feser's fault because in the one paragraph where he mentions angels he didn't make it clear enough to Prof Oerter(even though Oerter by his own admission didn't read the whole paper) that he Prof Feser didn't endorse the idea Angels moved the Asteroids. Also that somehow mentioning Aristotle's historic view on celestial mechanics was somehow prima facia ridiculous. Thus Oerter has a right to misrepresent the content of a paper as long as he provides links(which people won't read after all Prof Oerter has already explained it and thus why bother reading a 55 page Philosophy journal) and gives "accurate" quotes from.

      Oh yes and writing a paper on physics is the absolute equivalent to writing on one philosophy and metaphysics. Because at this point in spite of my best efforts Oerter thinks they are the same!


      Geezus! emerson are you kidding me!!!!


      Delete
  10. ---Continued---
    Now this analysis by Feser is found in the concluding paragraph of the first sub-section under Feser's third Section Heading titled: "III. How the principles are in fact related."

    No offense, Ben, but that discussion about "the only possible cause of inertial motion -- at least if it is considered to involve real change -- would seem to be a necessarily existing intelligent substance or substances" [emphasis added] is simply NOT a throw-away section of the paper.

    If there is in fact no such A-T metaphysical thing as "necessarily existing intelligent substance or substances" then by Feser's own analysis there can be no A-T cause of inertial change when such change is considered as "real change." Yes, Feser considers other ways of analyzing the situation, but THIS WAY, which Feser does consider, depends on Angels, or God acting independently from Angels -- and this way involves his only solution in the case where such change is considered as "real change". So contextually, this focus on intelligent substances (Angels) seems right on ... and absolutely not dishonest.

    But, IN ADDITION to pointing out this issue in this particular blog post, Oerter also gave links WAY BACK in his FIRST paragraph to ALL of the previous exchanges between him and Feser on the entire topic of Newtonian Inertial Motion. Thus there is absolutely no reason for Oerter to discuss Feser's entire analysis in this particular post.

    As far as I can see, this leaves open only one issue: Oerter's style by using the phrase "wait for it" and by putting "ANGELS" in full caps surrounded by white space. Given everything I have just reviewed, there is no way that employing those stylistic techniques (even if designed to create extra drama) amounts to or equals dishonesty. Strident maybe, dishonest absolutely NOT.

    Feser escalated this dispute past his own standard, and (IMO) should apologize, whether or not Oerter should also apologize, BUT ... honestly .... isn't all this pretty typical of, and perhaps even hard to avoid, given the free-form of blog land? Or is that too much political-speak?

    So let me re-state my earlier question: Are angels part of physics, or not?

    Peace.

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    Replies
    1. @c emerson

      Your are in full spin mode and it makes me sick!

      I won't play that game.

      QUOTE"Wherein lies the supposed dishonesty? Feser begins by complaining that I ignored the whole first half of his paper. Well, I did!"

      You can't spin this & I will not get sucked into your misdirection.

      The man(Oerter) made a analysis of a paper he admits to NOT having read and is doing damage control rather then man up and admit he was in the wrong.

      Rather then admit what is obvious to a child you want to suck me into a long winded pointless sophistical "argument" as to why it was ok for Oerter to misrepresent the Paper and pretend he was merely being "strident" not dishonest.

      That is a TROLL's Trick!

      I DO NOT BUY IT SO DON'T WASTE MY TIME!

      >So let me re-state my earlier question: Are angels part of physics, or not?

      What do I fucking care the Paper you are pretending to read was a paper on philosophy of nature and metaphyics not physics?

      Like Prof Oerter it seems you can't tell the difference between those three subjects!

      >Feser escalated this dispute past his own standard, and (IMO) should apologize, whether or not Oerter should also apologize,

      Then you are the same sort of Gnu Atheist sociopath who thinks Catholics should apologize to PZ Myers for trying to get him fired from his job after he told his pet trolls to go out an steal a Consecrated Host so he could desecrate it!

      It not as sever but it's kinda like a Klanman telling a black guy he just beat up to apologize to him for getting his blood on his white sheet!

      You are seriously fucked in the head emerson!

      There now I am cursing again. New Year's resolution blown!

      Thanks for nothing people!

      Delete
  11. BTW, Feser's argument in his book Aquinas, A Beginner's Guide [p.71-72] for the First Way, where he explicates the distinction between "a causal series ordered per accidens and the nature of a "causal series ordered per se" does not bring angels into the equation. Feser states, "If a first member who is the source of the causal power of the others did not exist, the series as a whole simply would not exist." Isn't this really what is involved (rather than Angels as particular substances), when the question of what sustains "real change" arises? Does the term "sustaining cause" have any legs in A-T, and why would such a term need to entail angels rather than just God acting alone?

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  12. Sorry Ben, I did not realize you were posting just as I was adding one additional thought (which has nothing to do with who should have written what, when, but goes to my own question of the effect of "real change" on the A-T First Way argument for God). I suspect we will just have to disagree as to the debate over stridency vs dishonesty, although I will, of course, review your new points. Thanks for the detailed exchange. Peace.

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  13. Yes, for real. And I'm serious about these subjects despite the existence of blog land banter and even acrimony. That's why I read Ed Feser's blog right along side Jerry Coyne's blog right along side the Maverick Philosopher's blog right along side Robert Oerter's blog right along side many others too. That's also why I read your comments, Yair's comments, Scott 's comments, Aversa's comments, Untenured 's comments and many more. Ain't America great? It's amazing sometimes where the truth comes from. I grew up among amardillos in Texas, so I got skin tougher than any rattlesnake's bite. So bury the hatchet and move on. Or not. Peace out, friend.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Yes, for real. And I'm serious about these subjects despite the existence of blog land banter and even acrimony. That's why I read Ed Feser's blog right along side Jerry Coyne's blog right along side the Maverick Philosopher's blog right along side Robert Oerter's blog right along side many others too. That's also why I read your comments, Yair's comments, Scott 's comments, Aversa's comments, Untenured 's comments and many more. Ain't America great? It's amazing sometimes where the truth comes from. I grew up among amardillos in Texas, so I got skin tougher than any rattlesnake's bite. So bury the hatchet and move on. Or not. Peace out, friend.

    ReplyDelete